XFX HD5770 Problem

[XxXButcher]

o.k. my new XFX HD5770 and the new power supply unit arrived
system is running... but: with the old graphics card :cry:

I installed all. All power connections worked with special thank to Bert~Boobs.
Here's what happens...
- I switch it on, pc first seems to try booting over DVD drive, tho BIOS is set to HDD as first boot device
- after 30 senconds it finally starts windows
- windows first runs normal, searches for driver things and tries installing
- screen starts looking strange after 30 seconds... small grey squares and lines of squares blinking up, covering the screen...
- after 2 minutes of this: blackscreen
- PC seems to be doing nothing

I already tried using the other connection to the monitor.
Nothing that far :(

one of my friends told me to install the old card and it runs perfectly
any idea what's wrong?


THX in advance
:greetings: :butcher:

[Chriss-FIN-]

There some red leds at card, does some of them flash or be on ?

Edit: Sorry, just read more about 5770, i think they have removed diagnostic lights from some of that model cards, so im not sure do you have those...

[XxXButcher]

well... case was open... seemed to be no lights one
after the old card was installed windows searched of errors, found none, PC started normal...
completely old settings no change :(

[Dax]

did you try a simple reseat of the card? Plug it out, then back in?

[Chriss-FIN-]

Whats your old card ? Have you completely sweeped and uninstalled old drivers, before installing new card and drivers ?

[XxXButcher]

I have / had a Sapphire X1950 Pro with the latest drivers (CCC)
worked good for 30 seconds...

and nope, I didn't plug it out and in yet...
I will do that tomorrow...

tho I found something...
as I had closer look for damages I found out, that a little tiny piece of one gold contact
at the PCI slot was missing... you know... these gold things at the thingi where to plug in the card with...
this might be the reason... not sure

I'll test tomorrow... if it doesn't change I'll get a new one...
until then I'd be grateful for other ideas / opinions / hints :thankyou:

[Fehn]

the card is found and "working" though you suffer from visual errors, these occur even in POST ?

[Fehn]

yeh allrite, to be honest it sounds like theres something messed up with the card, either that or it gets busted when its loading its drivers.
My options would be either complete reinstall of win to rule out any software issue, then even going back to earlier drivers.
second would be getting a new card on support... seeing as im pretty lazy id just get the support to send me a new one ;)

[H0RN3T1971]

The shortened strip on the connector edge is normal and is not broken.

Its possible its a driver issue.

Or this is either a faulty card/ a over heating card or a poorly driven GPU from lack of PSU power. Check your amps on your 12v rails on your power supply. Wattage means nothing

if your rails are supplying less amps than the card needs. If i'm not mistaken the 5770 needs 34amps on the 12v rail and around 200 to 270watts.

[XxXButcher]

there is only 1 PCI-e rail and I don't really know how to check the Amps...
I don't have an ampmeter here... the package from the PSU says
12V1 = 16A
12V2 = 18A

I don't think, that it is a heat issue, because the cooler is running and I didn't even manage to start a game...
so no big usuage of the GFX yet...

[H0RN3T1971]

The rail is not the slot on the motherboard but the power supplied off the PSU's '12volt rails' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_rail

[XxXButcher]

well... I was already that far...
my PSU only has 1 PSI-e cable...
so I plugged it in and after 30 seconds the problems started :no:

[XxXButcher]

o.k. here is how I connected it now
and how you say it is right...
just to check if I get it right...

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5827/psum.jpg

[Speedstar]

:offtopic:

i like the lower left corner :rofl:
its very interessting and suits to the topic

[Kotze]

What kind of PCI-e slots uve got on ur mainboard?? We had a similar prob with my brothers 5770 and there the mistake was, that it demands a PCI-e 2.0 plug to run properly. I wish u luck.
Bye.
K.

[XxXButcher]

my mainboard only has one PCI-e slot...
never heard of PCI-e 2.0 lol :(

[Bert~Sinbad]

PCIe 2 explanation

What has changed

The major change in the new revision of the standard is increased bandwidth. The older PCIe 1.x standards let each lane transmit up to 250 MB/s of data; PCIe 2.0 ratchets this up to 500 MB/s. This means that a x16 slot, such as the one most graphics cards plug in to, can deliver up to 16 GB/s of bandwidth (that is both directions combined). Twice as much, in other words, as older versions of the spec.

The power spec has also been increased. A new version of the power supply connector that is used for graphics cards that need more power than the slot can deliver (sometimes called a PEG connector, for PCI-Express Graphics) has been introduced, changing from 6 pins to 8. A single x16 card may now draw up to 300 W of power (75 W from the slot itself, 150 W from an 8-pin PEG connector, 75 W from a second PEG connector), up from 225 W (75 W from the slot, 75 W each from 2 6-pin PEG connectors) or originally 150 W (75 W from the slot, 75 W from a 6-pin PEG connector).

The links are also now smarter. They can negotiate a new link width (number of lanes) or speed (whether to use the clock speed of PCIe 1.x or 2.0) on the fly. Power requirements can be renegotiated on the fly. The operating system can be informed of such changes.

Forward compatibility: old motherboard, new card

PCIe 2.0 is intended to be 100% forward compatible. Any PCIe 2.0 card should work in any PCIe 1.x motherboard. Again the link speed will be limited by the slower part, and will have to clock down to the slower PCIe 1.x speed. Because the card expects to have more bandwidth available, this could cause a loss of performance (as of this writing that loss is purely theoretical, as no commercial cards can saturate a x16 PCIe 1.x link).

There are scattered anecdotal reports of some very early PCIe motherboards, boards that implemented the PCIe 1.0a spec, not playing nice with new PCIe 2.0 cards. Again, this comes down to a violation of the specification on the part of either the motherboard or card. If you are stung by such a problem, contact the companies that made your motherboard and video card.

Because of the change in power connectors, new cards are not guaranteed to be compatible with older power supplies. In particular, a card might draw more power than the power supply (with all of the other hardware in the system) can comfortably supply. Additionally, adapters may be needed for very high-power cards; although the older 6-pin PEG connectors will fit into newer 8-pin receptacles, they cannot supply as much power. Such cards might require the use of an adapter that turns Molex connectors into an 8-pin PEG connector, for example.

XFX HD5770 spec's

Bus Type PCI-E 2.0, PCI-E 2.1
Performance Standard, XXX
GPU Clock MHz 850 - 875 MHz
Stream Processors 800
Memory Interface Bus (bit) 128
Memory Type DDR5
Memory Size (MB) 1024 MB
Memory Clock (MHz) 4800 - 5200 MHz
Microsoft® DirectX® Support 11
Shader Model Support 5.0
Open GL Optimization and Support 3.2
Minimum Power Requirement (Watt) 450W with one 6-pin power cable
Profile Double
Max Resolution Analog 2048 x 1536
Max Resolution Digital 2560 x 1600
ATI Eyefinity Technology

[XxXButcher]

- I got a 550 Watt PSU with one 6 pin cable and it's all correctly installed... I worked that out with stormy, who has the same way of powering his GFX card.
- thanks to Bert~Boobs I know, that it should work on my mobo... also stormy and one of my IT brainiacs told me the same... it has to work... or my PC is the only exception :(

Possibilities now:
- driver issue: Unlikely, because the screen failures appeared even in the BIOS, but I will check this.
- BIOS issue: Will check on friday
- card installed wrong: pretty much impossible... it fitted perfectly and wasn't able to be moved after the holder were fixed
- card fecked up: Dunno yet (Faceless broke it !)... last option... in that case I return it, but I never had any issues with getting fecked up hardware :dunno:

[Rozonus]

Butcher you *******!

Edit: Stupid profanity filter! Is there an option to turn that off?

[XxXButcher]

Butcher you *******!

Edit: Stupid profanity filter! Is there an option to turn that off?

*XxXButcher cuddles Roz*

[H0RN3T1971]

Give us some details of your motherboard and power supply.

Need to check your mobo has a pci-e v2 and check your psu has enough amps on the 12v rail.

You can have a 1000 watt power supply with 8 amp rails, (although unlikely) this will not run the card.

I believe dax and gunfood understand this point first hand now. A cheap, high wattage psu is usually no good for these new powerful gfx cards.

I still think the psu is the cause here, check how many amps the gfx card needs, check if your PSU is supplying the amps on the pci-e power side that the card needs.

[XxXButcher]

Mainboard: Asus M2N-e
PSU: Rhombutech Silent Giant 550 Watt

and stop with that 12V rail...
I got a 6 pin plug and it's exactly the same connection as stormy has...
I would get an error signal from my mainboard, if the GFX card wouldn't have enough power

[Dax]

look butch, I've had the conversation, it does matter, different voltage, different current, and different resistance in the wires, will all effect the power flow to the device, just because 550W leaves the PSU, doesnt mean 550W can get to the card.

[BloodRaven72]

just tried my 5770 in my old m2n-e sli and got no o/p from card, also run on a 550w psu. Although my card says in the specs crossfire and the mobo is sli whether that's the prob i dont know hence why splashed out on a new mobo.

[H0RN3T1971]

Mainboard: Asus M2N-e
PSU: Rhombutech Silent Giant 550 Watt

and stop with that 12V rail...
I got a 6 pin plug and it's exactly the same connection as stormy has...
I would get an error signal from my mainboard, if the GFX card wouldn't have enough power

You seem to know what you're doing, i'll stop now.

[Speedstar]

fellas, cool down, Butch let us help you:!:
I know like you fell now, if it wont run, its f u c k i n g terrible :)

maybee you can make some photos from your PSU and your graficcard. so there can we see what you mean (your paint skills are greate, but not very meaningfull)

[Storm_Seraphin]

just tried my 5770 in my old m2n-e sli and got no o/p from card, also run on a 550w psu. Although my card says in the specs crossfire and the mobo is sli whether that's the prob i dont know hence why splashed out on a new mobo.
Just as a side note: it doesnt matter whether a MB is a sli or crossfire, thats just the prefered supported chip set, you can fit an ATI card on a Nforce or Nvida related board & vice versa, a problem may arise if, you actually try & sli or crossfire your cards. its just the way they are driven. :good1:

The problem is with butcher i think is; his Mb is pci-e @x16 lane version 1+, the card should work, even though its a pci-e v2 but would produce weird effects "possibly". it just wont have the data throughput of the v2 lane.
The card comes with a 6pin to a "Y" connection of 2x 4pin 12v white connectors. but his Psu has a dedicated 6pin gfx plug. I would say this "Y" plug is so you can take 2x standard 12v supplies. from separate lines to run a 6pin plug, ok yes possible but it breaks one rule: (1 plug = 1 device & no two heavy powered device on that same line) I would say maybe, his psu dedicated 6pin connector might not be supplying the correct output (like hornet says).

Butchers mainboard manual I got from asus "PDF" : ftp://seraphin.digitalinsomnia.co.uk/storms/e2630_m2n-e_manual.pdf

[XxXButcher]

:ditto:
horny m8, this was not against you...
the PSU is strong enough, especially the 6 Pin plug and I connected it right like stormy,
so it wouldn't make really sence, if the right connection doesn't work :dunno:
the new card needs 108 Watt and the old one ~100...
but if you say that might be it I will also try it... I have an adapter from XFX and 2 12V plugs free
it's just, that correct things don't work as they should :(

[H0RN3T1971]

The psu is strong enough if it supplies the amps that the gfx card requires.

EG scenarios:

Graphic card needs 400watts and 34 amps

PC got 550 watts and one 12 volt rail supplying 18 amps = wont run the gfx card.

PC got 1000 watts and one 12 volt rail supplying 24amps = wont run the gfx card.

PC got 400 watts and one 12 volt rail supplying 34 amps = gfx works fine.

Usually, you can tell a good psu apart from the cheaper, poorer quality ones by the weight lol

You get what you pay for and cheap PSU's with a high wattage are normally a waste of time, these PSU's will run all PC's not a problem

but hit a wall when you throw a high powered GFX card at them (needs 34 amps etc and supply 12 to 18amps)

Don't mix up amps/volts and wattage, related? yes obviusly, the same ? NO !

I get ESD shocks in excess of 30,000 volts many times daily at work, I dont die obviously, why? Coz there is no current, no amps.

This may be the reason your card is not working properly, it may not be but you have to check what amps you need on the 12volt rail supplying your gfx card

before you RTM.

[Bert~Sinbad]

its either:
the MOBO..... solultion get another MOBO they are cheap enough and easy enough to replace
the PSU..... might not be giving enough wattage for the card... but concidering the visual effects you have described I very much doubt it... ITS unlikely that it would run then glitch then fail... more likely just not run at all.
the GPHx card itself is broken... in which case its easy to replace just annoying waiting for a new one

coincidentally..... the visual glitches you have mention could be reminiscent of a broken RAM module either on the card or on the mainboard, but I take it your ram is in the supported list from the MOBO vendor?


easy way to test this is go into safe mode... the power drawn to the card will be negligible without windows either trying to use a large maount of RAM or Gphx power on boot.

EDIT.........
tensions for the PSU
http://www.rhombutech.de/produkte/Rhombutech/SuperSilent_RT_550.jpg
http://www.rhombutech.de/produkte/Rhombutech/SuperSilent_RT_550_Data.gif

hornet even my monster coolermaster 1000w doesnt get 34a from its 12v, where did you get 34a from for the 12v for your example??????
my tensions
http://www.coolermaster.com/upload/product_feature/RealPowerPro1000-6.jpg

[XxXButcher]

Yap... all RAM work properly and are supported :good2:

[H0RN3T1971]

You'd use 2 rails to get the power m8. 2 Leads from either/or/both pci-e 4pin / pci-e 6pin power lead or a 4 pin converted to a 6pin.

And bert ... why do you have a coolermaster 1000w if you must know this already? What system are you running? (I sent you PM)
NB m8, this is very clearly a gfx issue and nothing else. Not a RAM issue. corrupt onscreen gfx and resulting in blackscreen = video = gfx under powered or overheating or config issue. He rebooted with old gfx card plus no issue until the upgrade.

I use a 4 pin and a 6 pin (2x 4 pins) from my corsair 620w to run my 9800GX2 (35 amp)

I did use 34amp as an EG btw but it seems it must of been in the back of my mind, this info i've seen somewhere (34amps for the 5770) -Radeon HD 5770 - 34A and a 500W PSU minimum


Recent gfx cards watts/amps requirements, for guidance (these figures are usually enough to power the rest of your system also) :-

Nvidia

Geforce GTX 295 in Quad SLi - 70A and a 1000W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 295 - 50A and a 700W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 285 - 46A and a 550W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 280 in SLi - 55A and a 800W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 280 - 40A and a 550W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 275 in SLi - 50A and a 800W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 275 - 40A and a 550-600W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 260 OC in SLi - 50A and a 700W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 260 OC - 40A and a 550W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 260 in SLi - 50A and a 700W PSU minimum
Geforce GTX 260 - 38A and a 500W PSU minimum
Geforce GTS 250 - 32A and a 500W PSU minimum
Geforce GT 240 - 35A and a 400W PSU minimum
Geforce GT 220 - 30A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 9800 GX2 - 35A and a 550W PSU minimum
Geforce 9800 GTX+ - 32A and a 500W PSU minimum
Geforce 9800 GTX - 25-30A and a 450W PSU minimum
Geforce 9600 GT - 26A and a 450W PSU minimum
Geforce 9600 GSO - 26A and a 450W PSU minimum
Geforce 8800 Ultra - 35A and a 500W PSU minimum
Geforce 8800 GTX – 30A and a 450W PSU minimum
Geforce 8800 GTS 512MB - 28A and a 500W PSU minimum
Geforce 8800 GTS 320/640MB – 26A and a 400W PSU minimum
Geforce 8800 GT in SLi - 36A and a 500W PSU minimum
Geforce 8800 GT - 26A and a 450W PSU minimum
Geforce 8600 GT/GTS - 24A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 8500 GT - 22A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 7950 GX2 – 27A and a 400W PSU minimum
Geforce 7950 GT – 22A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 7900 GTX – 22-26A and a 350-400W PSU minimum
Geforce 7900 GTO – 22-26A and a 350-400W PSU minimum
Geforce 7900 GT – 22-26A and a 350-400W PSU minimum
Geforce 7900 GS – 22-23A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 7800 All - 26A and a 400W PSU minimum
Geforce 7800 GS AGP - 20A and a 400W PSU minimum
Geforce 7600 GT – 22-26A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 7600 GS – 15-17A and a 350W PSU minimum
Geforce 7300 GT – 15A and a 300W PSU minimum
Geforce 7300 GS – 15A and a 300W PSU minimum

ATI

Radeon HD 5970 CrossfireX - 70A and a 900W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5970 - 50A and a 600W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5870 CrossfireX - 55-60A and a 700W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5870 - 40A and a 500W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5850 CrossfireX - 55-60A and a 650W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5850 - 35-40A and a 500W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5830 - 35-40A and a 500W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5770 - 34A and a 500W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5750 - 30A and a 450W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5670 - 26A and a 400W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5570 - 24A and a 350W PSU minimum
Radeon HD 5450 - 22A and a 300W PSU minimum
Radeon 4890 - 32A and a 550W PSU minimum
Radeon 4870 X2 CrossfireX - 1000W PSU minimum
Radeon 4870 X2 - 600W PSU minimum
Radeon 4870 - 32A and a 500W PSU minimum
Radeon 4850 - 30A and a 450W PSU minimum
Radeon 4830 - 26A and a 400W PSU minimum
Radeon 4770 Crossfire - 34A and a 750W PSU minimum
Radeon 4770 - 26A and a 400-500W PSU minimum
Radeon 4670 - 26A and a 400W PSU minimum
Radeon 4650 - 24A and a 350-400W PSU minimum
Radeon 4550 - 20A and a 300W PSU minimum
Radeon X3870 X2 - 30A and a 550W PSU minimum
Radeon X38xx series - 28A and a 450W PSU minimum
Radeon X2900 XT Crossfire - 45A and a 800W PSU is recommended for high-end rigs
Radeon X2900 XT - 35A and a 500W PSU is recommended for high-end rigs
Radeon X2900 Pro - 35A and a 500W PSU minimum
Radeon X2600 XT - 25A and a 400W PSU minimum
Radeon X2400 XT - 20A and a 350-400W PSU minimum
Radeon X1950 XTX – 20A and a 420W PSU minimum
Radeon X1950 Pro – 20A and a 420W PSU minimum
Radeon X1900 XTX – 25A and a 520W PSU minimum
Radeon X1900 XT – 22-25A and a 520W PSU minimum
Radeon X1900 GT – 22A and a 400W PSU minimum
Radeon X1650 Pro – 18A and a 350W PSU minimum

10 print "i'll see if i can help you"
20 gosub 100
30 print "you can't help, everything is fine, i already know what i'm doin'"
30 print "here's a lil extra guidance, it could be this...."
40 rem *** you can lead a horse to water ***
50 goto 10
60 end
100 print"check your amps requirements of your 5770"
110 print"check your amps on your psu rails"
120 return
130 end
140 rem *** but you cannot force him to drink ***

http://img.hexus.net/v2/psu/CM/RS-A00.3.jpg Lots of 18's so 2 would be 36 ;)

http://img.hexus.net/v2/psu/CM/RS-A00.3.jpg

[XxXButcher]

:agree:

you're totally right with the powering issue(, except when the GFX card is broken)

:thankyou:

[Chriss-FIN-]

Was it the fan ?
My radeon had that first, the fan wasnt working properly and caused overhead in few minutes -> crash...

[Bert~Sinbad]

......And bert ... why do you have a coolermaster 1000w if you must know this already? What system are you running? (I sent you PM)
NB m8, this is very clearly a gfx issue and nothing else. Not a RAM issue. corrupt onscreen gfx and resulting in blackscreen = video = gfx under powered or overheating or config issue. He rebooted with old gfx card plus no issue until the upgrade.

replyed to your PM mate, got a 1000w because ive got a family who know i like gadgets lol
+ actually mate Id have to bow to your knowledge here, the only reason I mentioned RAM was becasue ive seen similar results (as butch described to me when on TS3 the other day) with a RAM issue in the past.
but you are right no probs with other card so no issue there
but now you have me totally confused
my 9800gtx needs 32a from that table above but ive only got a 4pin connected to it.... the rest must be from the mobo i suppose

[H0RN3T1971]

replyed to your PM mate, got a 1000w because ive got a family who know i like gadgets lol
+ actually mate Id have to bow to your knowledge here, the only reason I mentioned RAM was becasue ive seen similar results (as butch described to me when on TS3 the other day) with a RAM issue in the past.
but you are right no probs with other card so no issue there
but now you have me totally confused
my 9800gtx needs 32a from that table above but ive only got a 4pin connected to it.... the rest must be from the mobo i suppose

This is one major difference between cheap PSU's and well made more expensive ones, on top of stability......

With the coolermaster 1000 watt, like a lot of good quality PSU's, you have most output's capable of 18amps from ONE single 12 volt rail capable of supplying

up to 80 amps ! - nice ;) - and all at over 85% efficiency.

[Bert~Sinbad]

and this is why I always get my sister to explain electrics to me.. (shes an electronic engineer) lol
I will never understand this stuff, square plug goes in square hole + buy expensive stuff = always works..........


Butch any luck yet mate??

[Dax]

Just to sum up hornets post, with alot less technical wacko language ;)

P=IV, that is, Power=Current x Voltage

Just because you PSU can supply however many watts it can, doesnt mean that it is doing. As hornet pointed out, there are these rail thingies, now i dont really know what they mean, but if you times the voltage and the current that goes down each one together, you will be able to calculate how much of your PSU's max wattage actually reaches the card

[XxXButcher]

:yo: :yo: :yo:
o.k. I tried all possible solutions and had an electrician helping me and checking all Volts, Amps and Watts...


- Tried new drivers and checked all power connection
==> As expected: Same issue :no:

- Tried the "old way": Direct connection from PSU to GFX card via 6 pin connector
==> As expected: Same issue :no:

- Tried "new way 1": two 12V plugs from a single 12V rail connected together via an adapter to a 6 pin connector and plugged it into the GFX card
==> No change: Same issue :no:

- Tried "new way 2": two 12V plugs from two different 12V rails connected together via an adapter to a 6 pin connector and plugged it into the GFX card
==> This one should have worked: Same issue

It was all perfect... it just didn't work...
The GFX card didn't get boiled as I thought...
It was able to take all the power...
Tho no change... Tried another card from my electrician friend: HD5670... worked great...

Sooooooo... the GFX Card is fecked up :punish:
It will be sent back to the wholesaler, burned and farted at.

Thanks for your outstanding help and sorry for my stupidness :wasnt:
:thankyou:

[H0RN3T1971]

Have u tried another PSU yet?

[XxXButcher]

It not like I have no spare über-PSU here ;)
so I can't try that... except if you send me yours :P

but when all people say it can only be the card,
then I'm going to return it to the store and get my money back...

[Fehn]

hmh as i thought